User talk:Allen Knott
Welcome Hi, welcome to Battlestar Prometheus Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Battlestar Prometheus (Original Class) page. If you need help, and there are no local admins here, you may want to visit the forums on the Community Central Wiki. You can also check our Staff blog to keep up-to-date with the latest news and events around Wikia. Happy editing, Sarah Manley (help forum | blog) Atlas Is there something I'm missing about the Atlas? Phalanx-a-pedian 23:36, January 4, 2011 (UTC) Continued discussion :::1: I'm not saying that TNS BSG didn't do a good job in the science. I'm saying that they abandon the sciecne whenever they felt the need too. Baltar finding a way of curing Roslin cancer is a good example of them abadon the science whnever they need too. That my point and the "divine intervention" prove that point. I'm going to continue here. 1) Have you ever read "The Science of Battlestar Galactica"? It covers the Baltar cancer cure and explains it. It's an excellent book & should address many of things you consider to be issues. You have not proved that the abandon science at-all. The divine intervention stuff, while I don't like it, is not a case of not being able to get the science right, but to do with the direction/theme/message they chose for the show. The problem with it is nothing to do with the science, but to do with them deciding to basically say "god exists and does all this" when it would have been much better to leave it up to the viewer whether the Cylons were right about "the one true god". 2) No two? 3) The physics involved are really not that complicated. When you remove the atmospheric & magnetic field ect. that come with being close to earth, the contributing factors & variable that make predicting the results difficult massively simplify. You are left with nothing more then a really energetic explosion and a lot of electromagnetic radiation, much of it at high frequencies. There has been this. The 3rd one is well above the 100km boundary of space, though still low enough to be within the thermosphere. It's not "outer space" and the results of the explosion are still complicated by the influence of the Earth (and thus atmosphere, magnetic field ect). Read the Science of BSG, it has a section talking about the nuke in the miniseries and what would have happened under different conditions. I think Kurt has a PDF version, ask him. Nukes in space are special simply because they are REALLY powerful bombs in a (relative to power) small package. That's why the use them in the show; even in space, nukes are still the biggest booms. As for Caprica, it's likely the Cylons used versions intended to minimise fall-out, seeing as they clearly wanted to re-construct the place. Don't forget though that in BSG they have effective anti-radiation meds. 4) The map is the thing that is "Canon until proven Retconned". It was developed as a frame work with the idea being that if they decided to change things from it before inclusion in the show then that would not be a problem. I was not referring to the entire show. For that matter there are really not a lot of retcons in the show. In the case that they made a canon Battlestar Prometheus then Ryan would have a number of options. Most likely he would either simply change the name or decide not to consider anything but NuBSG (and maybe Caprica & B&C). 5) They stopped the war Allen. They are also "human" and thus not infallible. To expect them to predict Cavils actions (because it really does all come down to him) is unfair. It also seems as if things were going well until Cavil did his things. The stopped a war which could well have ended in the death of both races. I don't think I'd be too worried about whether it's slightly unfair to not tell the Colonials I exist when I've just saved them from a horrific war. :5.1) That's been covered multiple times in multiple places. The Sci of BSG has an entier chapter explaining it. 6) The new series is a re-imagining. It's not just a re-make of the original series. It changes massive aspects of it in a fundamental way. The parallels you drew there could be drawn between any number of shows! :6.1) They had developed computer systems which by all indications would have been immune to the Cylon's hacking had it not been for the CNP. They also had next to no idea of what was going on. It's not like they would go "hirm, the Cylons launched a sneak attack and managed to wipe out 30 battlestars in one go. We don't know how, but there are a large number of reports coming through regarding equipment malfunctions. It must be Cylon sabotage! I know, just in-case it is I'll take down my ships networks, massively impacting it's combat effectiveness, maybe taking quite a long time. I'll also get every ship in the fleet to do this. We'll just wait until we've all sorted this out, and it will take a while, before stopping the Cylons from nuking the frak out of our homes". Things aren't as simple as oh Cylons, take down networks. Do you really think that a force designed primarily to fight cylons would have no confidence in their computer systems when faced with them. The reality is that before a significant number of ships are able to find out what's wrong and correct it the fleet will have been gutted. It would be too late. :6.2) Oh, I don't know: Gathering and saving 45,000 people. Recognising when it's to late to save those still aboard ships without FTL. Convincing Adama to leave the colonies (Come on, the Cylons will have a much better chance of finding any remaining Colonials then Galactica. If they had taken that gamble most likely Galactica would have been lost trying and then the 45 thousand civilians would have been left to die). Organising the civilian government that keeps the fleet running and working, a very important task. Most likely ordering the destruction of the Olympic Carrier. Advising Adama not to go on a Cylon "witch hunt". Perusing the tomb of Pythia hunt. Conspiring with Adama to kill Cain ("despite nothing Cain was doing was illegal"!?!?! You have GOT to be kidding. Even if not technically illegal her actions where clearly massive and insane abuses of emergency power) for the safety of the fleet. Banning abortion (it was a had decision made for the right reasons). Refusing to risk humanity by settling on New Caprica... She makes a lot of decision, many not pretty but given the circumstances, correct. She's not perfect however and does make mistakes. :6.3) They only have 2 Basestar following the fleet at that point. Clearly they have strained resources, likely due to picking off other survivors, doing whatever they did before the war ect. It's not like the asteroid was poorly defended, they had a frak-tonne of raiders and turrets after all. There probably is an element of arrogance as well, but humans have flaws, and thus so do the cylons. Seriously though, they can't have thought that Galactica was a match for two basestars with all those raiders. :6.4) People, including suicide bombers, are far more complicated then that. We are not purely logical. We are driven by emotion as well. From their point of view the New Caprica Police are helping support the occupying Cylon forces. Killing them is both out of anger/for revenge and also part of the larger plan to reduce cylon resources until it's just too much effort staying on New Caprica. The NCP are amongst those resources. The food/medicine comment is just ridiculous. :6.5) "Strong" is NOTHING to do with morals. It's about independence/confidence ect. You have the wrong definition of "strong women". 7) The characters in the new series are very well done, realistic characters. The show is widely praised for this. There is no such thing as a flawless person. However, most of the characters strive to do what they believe to be the right thing (a prime example being Lee). That you disagree with them is your problem, not a fault with the show or the quality of it's characters. I fail to see anything superior about the TOS handling of Zack. It's just different. 8) Ah, now I get it. You just wanted the show to be more hopeful. That's fine, I'd like the same thing, just not in the way you do... I still don't get where the hell you get the idea that there is not enough variation in the characters. As for somewhere the show went that other shows did not; how about putting a human face on suicide bombers at the hight of the war on terror. last) Go on then, indulge me. Send me an e-mail, I'd be happy to engage in a political discussion. Phalanx (talk| ) Admin] 04:19, March 5, 2013 (UTC) ::1 and 3) I have not read The Science of Battlestar Galactica. Also, me and Kurt doesn't get along well. However, since it a guide to show, it no better as a source than any of the Star Trek/Star Wars guide. Which several of the Star Trek guide do a good job of explaining how the science of Star Trek work. ::They a different between having anti-radiation meds, which are short-time, and survivors in what would be a nuclear wasteland are completely different. Also giving the number of nuclear explosion scene during the Miniseries, it highly unlike that anything would have been untouch on Caprica. ::Because, they never intended to go back to Caprica, pre-Miniseries. It was only post-Miniseries that they decided "let go back to the nuclear wasteland...but it not going to be a nuclear wasteland." Clearly, again, no one through out, the whole longtime arc of the new BSG. ::2) No, no comment on anything previous said in 2. ::4) If you take not just the new series, along with B&C and Caprica, they are several more retcon. The list, which I have seen before, is just for the the new series, and don't take into account B&C or Caprica. ::Now example, why are Viper Mark III seen in B&C but Viper Mark II seen in the Razor flashback. The whole entire internal view of Galactica in B&C is laughable. ::5) It really does all come down to Cavil. He the one who trap and murder the Final Five. He the one who box, the Number Threes. It seem to suggest that he is the one behind the Cylon attack, primary manipulated the other humanoid Cylons to do his well. ::6.1) If the Colonial Military is that stupid, to think hmm, we can have a computer system that can't be hack by the Cylons, then no wondering they was beaten badly. Also, what someone not noticed Caprica-six going through the defenese mainframe? Also, why would Baltar, a civilian, have access to the defense mainframe? ::6.1A) Then why would not the Colonial military put in a safe guard to quickly shutdown the network? Assuming they learn anything from the first war. Second, giving the fact that they lost 30 battlestars (1/4 of the Fleet) in the first wave, that should be enough to prove something is wrong. If anyone have a any thought of "how are they doing this?" The quickly answers, is the network, since older Battlestar doesn't have it. ::6.2) If you noticed in the miniseries we see at least 3 Vipers with Roslin Fleet, before it jump out. Second, any one you had a mind should realized that sub-light ships would take a while to get anyway. So why have them? Oh, I know just to blow them up. However, she could have sent out the 3 Vipers to engaging the raiders that jump in. RDM said during the commentry that this was just done to show that the new BSG is different from other show; just like the whole Olympic Carrier destruction. You just never do something just to do it. It is made sense within the story, yes, but not just to shock the viewers. ::6.2A) Till Razor, Cain didn't even do anything that was that "insane." She allowed to transfer personal between the two Battlestars, because she is in overall command. Now giving that she allowed her crews to gang rape, Gina, rape is often used as a weapon during wartime. Also, since technically there is no Colonial version of Geneva or Hague conversion, we don't know what the legal policy is regard POW, what Gina is. However, since Roslin airlock Humanoid Cylons, which don't made a lot of sense they will download again, that is also a "war crime." ::And better question, is why did they made Cain so "insane?" Really, mean stripped 15 civilian ships of people, FTL, weapons, etc. That don't even made any sense. ::Shooting her X.O. was done, again, just to shock the audience. ::6.3) Why would the Cylons have strained resources, when we see a massive fleet over the Cylons Colony during the plan? ::Either they are more survivors or they Cylons are not trying to destroyed Galactica. ::However, they don't explain, the whole 1 single resurrection ship for the entire Cylons Fleet. Are only protect it with 2 basestars. During the Battle of Ragnar, Galactica engaging 3 Basestars and the Cylons knew that Pegasus exist. ::6.4) All right. They are two type of collaborators, involuntry and voluntry. The NCP are voluntry collaborators. Any involuntry collaborators are anyone who don't fight nor oppose the Cylons for whatever the reasons i.e. the people form Sagittaron because they are pacifist. Before you call it ridiculous, the is an argued made by history professor before. During the time on new caprica, no one ever thought of asking the question, "Why are the humans working with the Cylons?" Maybe they was force to. Not only did the writer only do it for shock value, they also only give us a one-dimension look at suicide bombing. They never asks the hard questions. For example, "maybe a arms resistence is better alternate to suicide bombing." Maybe, "we are should take the chance to work with the Cylons and move past our history." ::6.5) Incorrect, you have the wrong definition of a "strong woman" just like modern soceity do. You be a strong character, and lot morality. Now, you could argue that maybe they have morality and it different but morality is a center trait of what made a "strong character" if we go by the anicent Greek view. ::6.5A) You made the mistake that the entitle world made, acting like being "strong' have nothing to do with being morality. No wondering the world if falling apart. ::6.5B) I want to point out that maybe, "strong" is the wrong word to used. However, my point is still the same. New BSG characters, for the most part, lack a moral center, including Lee Adama, who is a whiny little bitch. ::"Oh, I'm love with my boyfriend ex-girlfriend." ::"Oh, I have daddy issue." ::And it funny, how Lee's daddy issue didn't end when learn the truth that it was Kara fault for his brother died. ::7) Do not care about the praised that the new BSG have gotten...because several things have gotten praised that didn't earn it. The other problem with "praised" is in the here and now. The new BSG is still fair new, only about 10 years old. It more popular than let several other show, so it will get more praised. I agreed there is no such thing as a flawless person, however, again, they are good people in the world, and few and almost non-exist within the new BSG. ::8) I don't have your e-mail and I'm getting rather tired of get argument. Plus, I doubt you would like my view of the world. Since, I'm anti-democracy, anti-human rights, anti-enlightenment, anti-captialism, and the list go on and on. I fundamentlist reject the modern world. ::Plus, you view BSG as being something is not and you're never going to convice me otherwise. I'm probable never going to be convice you, you're wrong. Part of the rest, I left the tech team, was because of the very issue. Because, I got tired of beating my head against a brick wall. ::Part of the problem, is that BSP could have gone place that the series didn't go. And I was trying my best to convince Ryan that he should write more standalone BSP instead of trying to keep it in canon. However, Ryan didn't chose that path, he chose to stick to BSG canon. Despite, it numbers of flaw, and down right stupity. He even accept the ending with them settling on our earth. Why stay somewhere, where all you're doing is beating your head against a brick wall. What I'm doing right now again. ::So, in the end I don't care that Ryan, in my opinion, screw up the last season of BSP. I honestly don't care, if it Battlestar Atlantia or Battlestar Atlantis. You chose whatever you want. Allen knott 4:05am E.S.T. U.S. 3/5/2013. ::